You know what, after a sleepless night of beating myself up Sunday night for not delivering a perfect message on Sunday (yet again), and for my ill-advised use of the word "homo" (though, in fairness, it was used in the context of a caricature), I have come to the conclusion that further discussion along these lines - by me - puts ME at the center and that's not going to help anyone.
For those who stand in front of people and speak - especially for those who present God's word in a teaching or preaching environment - there is a really slippery slope at the end of each message. That is the temptation to think that what others received from God has anything to do with how cool you were, how great you sang or spoke, or how awesome your video editing is. It's really all about God, right?
Sunday, I said the message wasn't specifically about gay people. However, this blog post is. Here's what I think: the church (at large) has done a horrible job communicating the message of God's love through Christ to the gay community. I really believe most Christians don't even want to recognize the fact that there IS a gay community. For my money, it's time to wake up, smell the coffee and recognize that "We're here, we're queer, and we're not going away", isn't just a slogan chanted during Gay Pride Week, it's an actual reality that requires the attention of Christ-followers everywhere. We've swept this under the rug and it's a disgrace. At best, we've met the gay community with mild, uncomfortable indifference, at worst, rabid intolerance. I just think that it's time we remind ourselves that the gay community - like any community - is made up of individual people. Individual people that God loves. People that need individual love. Individual attention. Individual grace and individual mercy. Like any other ministry, this will only happen one person at a time.
Here's what I want to know from all of you:
HOW DO WE AS THE CHURCH REACH GAY MEN AND WOMEN WITH THE GOSPEL MESSAGE, AND HELP THEM EXPERIENCE LIFE-CHANGE?
WHERE HAVE WE FAILED? WHAT SHOULD WE DO INSTEAD?
Sound off.
Yes, we have failed. We have judged when we should have loved. We have failed to walk the line. Can we build a church that says "I love you" to the homosexual community even though we have a deep disagreement in lifestyle? Can we build a church that is a safe place to explore the will of God - no matter sexual orientation. I want my church to be "safe" and "loving" without compromising the biblical message. I am just not sure how to do it.
ReplyDeleteReading this, I think about a quote from one of my favorite authors, I changed it a little... i can do that right? well anyway, I did.
ReplyDelete"Its the Spirits job to love and convict. It's God's job to love and Judge. It's Jesus' job to love and redeem, and it's our job to love and serve."
I think before we start any ministry, we need to make sure what we want to do with it and what we actually do with it falls in the category of being "our job." We can do Their job, when we try, we are dangerously ineffective. That i believe, is why we have screwed up so much in the past and still screw up. Sometimes love means offending people unintentionally, if we make it clear the extent of our love then the offended probably won't stay that way for long. I LOVE GAY PEOPLE. I think they offer much to me, to our community (or church), and to the kingdom of God. They as well as you and I, are the most prized possessions in God's eyes...
Sorry this was so long, maybe i will write a response blog:)
The chasm between opinions could be a result of the juxtaposed positions we read in scripture - God's response (intolerance) versus what many see as Jesus' response(tolerance). Result - paralysis. And truth in love is now defined as being intolerant and judgmental, everyone is a victim, right is wrong, wrong is right, blah blah blah. Is there a leader in the house? :)
ReplyDeleteHere's my take. If I were gay I would be ticked about how the Church as a whole has treated me. If the Gospel is good news, than it is good news for all people.
ReplyDeleteWe are all God's children and the gift(salvation) He offers us is unbiased. It's not up to "the Church" to determine who is worthy of salvation, its up Him. So, instead, we should just Love each other as Christ Loves us. -KR
ReplyDeleteChurch is supposed to be a place where all people feel loved, safe, and welcomed. Most of the gay community wants to feel that love and acceptance of God, and to try and go to church is intimidating for them. I am so proud of you for standing up, stood your ground and said exactly what needed to be said. It took a lot of courage for you to give out that message and I thank you!!! It's about time that someone with a big heart and a real love for God to speak up and bring it, that to tell everyone ALL PEOPLE are accepted and loved by God no matter what. It's great news for the gay community to know that there is a place for them WITHOUT being judged, shunned, hurt and ridiculed. You have broken down that wall, and opened the door for all of us. I feel free and safe in your church. I have never felt that way anywhere else I've been. Thank you, with all my heart!
ReplyDeletemy take is first of all the churchs view on homosexuality in relation to any other sinful lifestyle has become unbalanced. is sleeping with someone of the same sex a sin?...yes. is sleeping some of the opposite sex with whom you aren't married a sin?...yes. is is looking at someone lustfully, same sex or otherwise a sin... YES!
ReplyDeleteis having the urge to sleep with someone of the same sex a sin?... no. is being tempted to cheat on your wife a sin?... no. is wrestling with yourself all day over whether to look at porn online or not a sin?...NO!
temptation and sin are two different things.
the church sometimes is quick to throw stones at a person dealing with homosexual temptation, but if our teens are struggling with whether to become "active" we just ignore it.
the church never offers the opinion the want to be homosexual DOESNT MAKE YOU GAY! the same way wanting to sleep around doesnt make you sexually active. it is a TOUGH DAILY TEMPTATION that many people deal with. and the only way to beat temptation is the support of people who love you ridiculously, and the help of a God who loves you even more.
I think that the church has gone wrong be shunning and closing their doors to the gay community. Salvation is made available for ALL. Look, we are all sinners...no sin is greater than another. We all struggle with sin. As the body of Christ, we are responsible to show the love of Christ to the person, NOT the sin. But so many times it is the person that is hated and rejected. Hate has never made anyone make a life changing decision to fully follow Christ. Now Im not saying that the church should promote or condone the lifestyle, but should be encouragers and supporters for those who are truly seeking God and trying to live as the Bible calls us to live. Then again, arent we all trying to do just that?
ReplyDeleteI was so thrilled to hear someone speak about something that has not been spoken about in a while at church! I have had many conversations pertaining to homosexuality with my friends, and they always say that "you are going to hell if you are gay." I always remind them of God's love and Jesus' love for ALL of us (criminals, assasins, gays, doesn't matter!) If we accept Him into our hearts and truly ask for God to enter our lives, we are doing what should be done. After replying with that coment, I back up the statement with: "You are not the person to judge...God is." That usually makes the conversation blow up at that point and they yell and scream at me because "the Bible says it's a sin!" I try very hard to back up everything with scripture but some people simply have a one-track mind and will never hear what God is truly saying. For those, I pray that you will read your Bible and dig a little deeper to try and understand what is actually said. Let's continue to do God's work (serve) and show people the way to becoming believers, not shunning them from God's love.
ReplyDeleteI know I will probable get some people that don’t agree but, I really believe that homosexuality isn’t just a choose. The reason I say this is why anyone would want to be shunned and rejected, because when they do chose to come out of the closet. And because of how the church as a whole there are men that are just with women just because that’s what most people accept, not that they really want a woman. Look at all the scandals in the last three year just among people that are considered to be higher in America. Like the pastor and the senators. But I am glad that this church loves everyone no matter what.
ReplyDeleteA comment from my friend, Pastor Steve Bentley, left on my Facebook:
ReplyDelete"I believe we need to reach out to homosexual people just like we need to reach out to any people that are not connected to God - we need to love them and exemplify Christ in our life. We need to share relevant messages with them. I have seen churches highly tolerant of immoral sexual behavior, yet condemn homosexuality as if it were a special sin that needed special abuse. Over the ages we have seen that condemnation and hateful behavior does not seem to grow the kingdom well and Jesus did not practice that.
I handle this just like I try to handle any other issues in the church - instead of hiding from it, whispering about it or attacking it I openly discuss it and talk about it. Whether it be racial issues, sexual issues or theft issues, I am willing to hold a dialogue with anyone about it. My bottom line in any conversation with someone about these and other issues is for them to come away feeling loved - maybe disagreed with, but still feel as if I care about them."
Michelle made a comment about your link:
ReplyDelete"What just breaks my heart is I don't know of any church anywhere around our area that really reaches out to the gay community. The church has failed them. They might say O they are welcomed here. But, would any invite them over to share a meal, Take them out for dinner. Would any be willing to really become involved in their life, And invite them to share in their own. Why don't we just face the fact, we are all a mess with a bunch of junk in us that needs to be worked out. And we cant work any of our mess out without God. I have been thinking alot about the gay issue lately, and what I have discovered whether gay or straight our weakness in any relationship is to search for love, acceptance, and security in flesh and blood without first seeking those things from our Lord. Which whether your gay or straight only leaves you feeling empty and void."
It is difficult to express the Bible when there are already so many people put off by it's very name. I love and befriend them the same as I would anyone else, but only they can ask for the forgiveness of their sins.. the same as I. Some have definitely failed the gay community with their hate and judgment, making it harder for all of us. Perhaps we have failed as a church for not making it known that we are not all Westboro.
ReplyDeleteI'm technically what you would call "in the closet" still and the major reason is for the protection of my family and myself. Although my children have accepted me, society does not. I very much enjoy attending Crossroads and have been fighting my own feelings because of the fact that it is very rare to find ANY church that is even willing to think about the acceptance of gay communities ESPECIALLY in their church! I don't want to be judged for me loving someone of the same sex. I want to feel that God loves me and that I am not going to hell. Who are we to judge each other? Only God has the authority to do this. If you all only knew how many people, gay and bisexuals, that I have talked to that have expressed how much they would love to be able to go to church as "themselves" and not feel like they have to hide who they really are. So, instead they have chosen to not attend church at all and that is very sad. I love Crossroads and cant tell you guys how much this whole topic has meant to me. I feel like a heavy burden has been lifted off not only my mind but my heart. Thank you for having the courage to bring up such a very sensitive subject. I love you guys!
ReplyDeleteThank you so much for all your comments! I think a very broad range of opinions has been represented here and that's good. I believe that open communication (without judging the communicator) is vitally important if we're going to learn anything about each other, and if we're going to be any help to one another.
ReplyDeleteI have read all of your comments and I find a common thread that is very encouraging, and that is the expressed desire of most people to respond to the gay community with the love of Christ.
I think that all of us have a lot to think about and pray about. For me, I want our doors to always be open to anyone. I don't want to hammer anybody for what they think or how they live...with a few notable exceptions. To whom much is given, much is required. I believe that puts those of us who claim to know Christ and have knowledge of His Word on the hot seat. Frankly, I'm WAY harder on us, than I am on the seeker - regardless of their lifestyle. If we are a mature Christ-followers, the burden is clearly on us to provide leadership that is a ladder, not a hammer - a bridge, not a wall.
I have a friend who is gay. I have told her this many times, "I love you for you, not because I am trying to convert you, not because I think that one day you won't be gay anymore. I just love YOU".
Barring the remotest intolerance on the part of the church, there is still a disconnect, and it is the reason we have difficulty in sharing the reality of Christ with people who are gay. As Christ-followers we are made aware through the Word of God that we are created in the image and likeness of God. And anything that is not in that image and likeness is sin. Sin, for which we can receive forgiveness through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. The vast majority of gay men and women I have met in my life (and they are many) have represented that they do not see being gay as sin.
For myself - to make my position completely clear (and all my gay friends already know it) I do not believe that the Bible supports same-sex relationships that include sexual intimacy. Does the Bible preclude same-sex relationships? Absolutely not. I have never heard of a closer, more intimate relationship than the one between David and Jonathan, Saul's son. Difference? They weren't sleeping with each other.
The breakdown is right there. It's the sex thing, man. Sexual intimacy outside of marriage is not Biblically supported. In any form. Most gay people would argue, "It's not possible for me to be married, under the law". Whether the law condones gay marriage is subject to change. God's Word on the issue of sexual intimacy outside of marriage, and what constitute marriage is not ever going to change.
So where are we? I am here loving you with all my heart if you are gay, welcoming you into our church, into my home, and into my life. And sharing with you - as you will receive it from me - Biblical truth. I am not better than you. I am a sinner saved by the grace of God. Without God's love and forgiveness, doomed to spend eternity separated from God in a hell that was not created for me.
I pray that God will give me the ability to love you more every day and grant me wisdom to know how to share His love with you in a way that will revolutionize your life, and that you will give me the opportunity to do life with you, as we both grow in the knowledge of God's will.
I love you for you, not because you will not be gay someday. I am not here to judge you. But I will always share the truth of God's word with you plainly, as you honor me with the privilege of speaking into your life.
Man, I just got to say this is good. and the sermon Sunday was just awesome. http://www.crossroadsenterprise.org
ReplyDeleteWell said Gene. I would love to see the day when the Gay community can feel safe to be open with the church. Only then will we be able to build lasting relationships that impact each others lives. I hope through our communities message of Love, Not Hate, that this can soon take place. I am excited to see what God will let us do for Him in this area!
ReplyDeleteOk Gene, I have been gone all day but I have been waiting to say this and and here it goes! I think one of the main reason why people are so intolerant towards gays is fear and insecurity! We as a whole looked down upon gay people and thought we were better than they were and had to put them down as a whole to make ourselves feel secure and accepted! Gays werent people they were lower than that, probably just one rung higher than child molestors! Today is no different! You ask most people about homosexuality and that sin ranks up there with blasphemy! I was talking to a friend of mine and he came to this conclusion on this subject,that either Jesus died for all, or no one at all! Meaning either all sin was forgiven, or no sins are forgiven! And he's right! Dude how can we neglect the gay community any longer man? Who is more lonely that a person hiding from their identity? Who is crying out more than someone who feels like they have no one that will accept them for them? Who are the very people that are included in this statement, when you have done it unto the least of these, you have done it unto me! This is an issue we can't neglect any longer! The first thing we as the church need to do is ask God to forgive us for our judgements and our way of thinking! Because until you come to the point that you realize gays are real people and are people that Jesus loves and accepts, nothing will change and gays will continue to be the outcasts of the church!
ReplyDeleteA sin is a sin in Gods eyes. To have any kind of hate in your heart towards anybody is just as bad as murder. Jesus said it. (Matthew 5:21-26) what I don't get is, why do do we make such a big deal out of someone being gay. I mean, were all born into sin aren't we. But we keep quiet and feel so sorry for people who struggle with other sins. Oh, poor guy, he couldn't help but to have sex with that hottie. Or poor guy he's struggling with a cocain addiction. I hear that stuff feels so good. Hey it's all the same in Gods eyes. He looks at the heart. Not the deeds. Thank you Lord for forgiveness. Don't limit God to who he can use.
ReplyDeleteThe message Sunday was awesome. Your presentation is like a conversation, which is refreshing!
ReplyDeleteI think the problem is that we have created a society where people feel the need to isolate themselves into specific groups i.e. the "gay" community. We don't have a "I eat too much" community or a "I don't exercise nearly enough" community. We have to love people out of the segregation.
Church should be a place where you don't even consider the person's faults. All sin is sin. There are no levels of sin, no sin meter. Forget who does what wrong. We should meet together and learn about God's word and enjoy each other's company. God will convict us of our sins when the time is right. No need to water down the message, just let each person deal with their own sin by God speaking through the message. We are there to support one another as these sins are revealed to us.
I have a cousin who is a homosexual. She hated church for years because she was always judged. She now attends Northpoint. They make her truly believe that God loves her. She had decided that some of the Bible was only stories to make a point, not truth. Her time at Northpoint has given God the opportunity to bring her around to recognizing the TRUTH of God's word. She is so much closer to God now. There are still some things that she has yet to be convicted of in her life. However, isn't that true of all of us? When I look at her, I don't see gay...I see someone I love and someone that God loves as well.
Afterall, that's the point right?
Thanks Kimberly, great comment!
ReplyDeleteWow, a lot of feedback! This is late but I think I am looking at things a little differently then most. I do agree that the Church has avoided speaking and reaching the homosexual. Times are changing and its out there for example the media with Rosy, Ellen and Porsha, Will and Grace, Linsey and Sam and on and on. We all know of someone who is gay and its "not a big deal" right? Many said this is no different then any other sin. But for me it is, i take it personal. I raised a child in Church, spoke of our Father, prayed and spoke about one man and one women in marriage. My Child told me over a year ago about their on-going homosexual realationship. For me it is not about love, I would lay down my life for this child before I knew and even now after i know. We can tell others that your hurting your body if you do meth, alcohol etc; its wrong to steel from others or if you have an affair but as Pastor Gene said the gays he knows do not believe it is a sin and this is the case with my child. " How can it be a sin when you are in love with someone, i do not look at them as male or female but as a part of me". As a church how do you tell others that to love someone is a sin? As Yisrael blog it is the spirits job to convict but doesn't he use us as messangers.
ReplyDeleteTheir are web sites that are telling my child that the Bible is misunderstood that the culture and our interpretation is wrong and that it is perfectly natural and this is not a sin. They have gay pastors.
I do feel we need to be more open and loving and teach what the scripture says in the last days many will be deceived. Our kids need to know about traps and disception and just because the media is ok with this it doesn't make it right.
When I found out about this i felt like a part of me died and remains dead but i will continue to love this child! I have prayed for them both.